Grant
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 4750
Loc: Denver, CO USA
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http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/01/porsche-918-spyder-plug-in-hybrid-concept-gets-78-mpg-hits-62-m/
-------------------- 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
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Ed NY
Moderator
Reged: 06/30/02
Posts: 3119
Loc: Westchester, New York
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Concept cars always look fantastic and then lose most of the excitement on the way into production. I guess those are cameras on the doors in lieu of mirrors? Another gimmick that will malfunction.
I’ll wait for the all electric motor version.
-------------------- Ed, 2010 6-Spd Turbo Cab
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Grant
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 4750
Loc: Denver, CO USA
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Quote:
I’ll wait for the all electric motor version.
And give up that V8 that revs to 9,200rpm?
-------------------- 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
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SpeedGeek
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/08/02
Posts: 2421
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
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I'm really bullish on hybrid / electric sports cars. Of course it will take some years, but eventually we will get some awesome fast models with great torque characteristics courtesy of electric propulsion.
-------------------- A. E. Neuman - 996 GT3 RS
Neuman for President!
You could do worse... and always have!
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spider
Pro
Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 12024
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Quote:
I'm really bullish on hybrid / electric sports cars. Of course it will take some years, but eventually we will get some awesome fast models with great torque characteristics courtesy of electric propulsion.
Don't count on any level of performance in future US cars if the current pack of freaks remains in control. The greens hate your cars and want you to be driving some little POS... or taking the bus.
spider
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Quote:
I'm really bullish on hybrid / electric sports cars. Of course it will take some years, but eventually we will get some awesome fast models with great torque characteristics courtesy of electric propulsion.
I guess you are not concerned about the extra mass. Never mind hybrids (using batteries) are greater pollutants, in their total life cycle, than an efficient gas powered car.
P.S. - in this concept mass seems to be reasonable at 3,285lb (see following post). But without the batteries it would be lighter.
Edited by A.Dias (03/01/10 09:38 PM)
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Highly Efficient and Ultra-Fast Plug-in Hybrid Super Sports Car Unveiled in Geneva
ATLANTA, March 1 /PRNewswire/ -- Today, on the eve of the Geneva Motor Show, Porsche unveiled an ultra-efficient, low-emission, mid-engine super sports car featuring hybrid and electric drive technology.
The 918 Spyder concept combines high-tech racing features with electric-mobility to offer a fascinating range of qualities. For example, it is planned to provide an emission level of just 70 grams of CO2 per kilometer on fuel consumption of only three liters/100 kilometers (equal to approximately 78 mpg U.S.), which is truly outstanding, even for an ultra-compact city car. This car, however, is intended to offer the performance of a super sports car with acceleration from a standstill to 100 km/h in just under 3.2 seconds, top speed of 320 km/h (198 mph), and a lap time on the Nordschleife of Nurburgring in less than 7:30 minutes, faster than even the Porsche Carrera GT.
The 918 Spyder is one of three Porsche models with hybrid drive making their world debut at the 2010 Geneva Motor Show. This trio – made up of Porsche's new Cayenne S Hybrid SUV with parallel full-hybrid drive, the 911 GT3 R Hybrid race car with electric drive on the front axle and a flywheel mass battery, and the two-seater high-performance 918 Spyder mid-engined sports car with plug-in hybrid technology – clearly demonstrates not only the great bandwidth of this new drive technology, but also the innovative power of Porsche as a genuine pioneer in hybrid drive. The highly-innovative 918 Spyder concept car combines Porsche's Intelligent Performance philosophy with the high-technology from motorsport, with classic but modern design to make a truly convincing statement.
Innovative powertrain combines race-bred V8 engine with electric drive
This open two-seater is powered by a high-revving V8 developing more than 500 horsepower and a maximum engine speed of 9,200 rpm – as well as electric motors on the front and rear axle with overall mechanical output of 218 horsepower (160 kW).
The V8 combustion engine is the next step in the evolution of the highly successful 3.4-liter power unit already featured in the RS Spyder racing car and positioned mid-ship, in front of the rear axle, giving the car excellent balance and the right set-up for supreme performance on the race track.
Power is transmitted to the wheels by a seven-speed Porsche-Doppelkupplungsgetriebe (PDK) transmission that feeds the power of the electric drive system to the rear axle. The front-wheel electric drive powers the wheels through a fixed transmission ratio.
The energy reservoir is a fluid-cooled lithium-ion battery positioned behind the passenger cell. The big advantage of a plug-in hybrid is that the battery can be charged on the regular electrical network. A further point is that the car's kinetic energy is converted into electrical energy fed into the battery when applying the brakes, thus providing additional energy for fast and dynamic acceleration.
Driver's choice of four distinct driving modes
A button on the steering wheel allows the driver to choose among four different running modes: The E-Drive mode is for running the car under electric power alone, with a range of up to 25 km or 16 miles. In the Hybrid mode, the 918 Spyder uses both the electric motors and the combustion engine as a function of driving conditions and requirements, offering a range from particularly fuel-efficient all the way to extra-powerful.
The Sport Hybrid mode uses both drive systems, but with the focus on performance. Most of the drive power goes to the rear wheels, with Torque Vectoring serving to additionally improve the car's driving dynamics.
In the Race Hybrid mode the drive systems are focused on pure performance with the highest standard of driving dynamics on the track, running at the limit to their power and dynamic output. With the battery sufficiently charged, a push-to-pass button feeds in additional electrical power (E-Boost), when overtaking or for even better performance.
With the hybrid drive system offering this wide range of individual modes and applications, the 918 Spyder is able either to achieve lap times comparable to those of a thoroughbred racing car, or the extremely low emissions and high fuel economy figures of a plug-in hybrid.
Advanced body structure and design offer more than just good looks
Like the drivetrain, the lightweight body structure of the Porsche 918 Spyder also bears out the car's DNA carried over directly from motorsport: The modular structure with its monocoque bodyshell made of carbon-fiber-reinforced plastic (CFP) and liberal use of magnesium and aluminum not only reduce weight to below 1,490 kg, or 3,285 lb, but also ensure supreme driving precision thanks to a high level of torsional stiffness.
Reminiscent of highly successful, legendary racing cars such as the Porsche 917 and the current Porsche RS Spyder, the 918 Spyder, with its design concept so typical of Porsche arouses powerful emotions. The combination of racing car dimensions, clearly structured design with perfectly balanced surfaces, and innovative details throughout, creates an ideal synthesis of form and function – following Porsche's design DNA.
The smooth balance of tradition and progress gives the car a powerful stance on the road. Variable aerodynamics, typical of Porsche, ensures both visionary and traditional highlights especially around the rear spoiler. The striking rear hoods extending out of the headrests, in turn, not only fulfill an aerodynamic function on the 918 Spyder, but also accommodate retractable air intakes with a ram air function.
High-tech interior provides glimpse into the future
The driver and passenger are not only embedded in contoured sports bucket seats but also form part of the cockpit, which provides a synthesis of efficient functionality and ergonomic high-tech operation. Additionally, the cockpit offers a glimpse at the potential interior architecture of future Porsche super sports cars. The three free-standing circular dials for road speed (left), engine speed (middle) and energy management (right) would appear to come directly from a racing car in the '60s, bearing out that unique philosophy of driver orientation so characteristic of Porsche.
The center console rises up towards the front in the 918 Spyder and houses a touch screen for intuitive control of the car's functions, serving to reduce the number of visible controls and maintain the principle of direct operation.
The control units relevant to the driver are mainly concentrated on the three-spoke multifunction sports steering wheel, while the variable driving modes are supplemented by a switch enabling the driver to call up various drive programs and serving as the push-to-pass button for E-boosting. Instrument illumination, finally, varies from green for the consumption-oriented running modes to red for the performance-oriented driving programs.
The Porsche 918 Spyder concept also comes with further innovative functions such as the Range Manager. After being activated in the Center Display, the Range Manager uses the map in the navigation system to present the remaining range the car is able to cover, naturally allowing the driver to influence that range through the appropriate choice of power and performance.
In cities with environmental alert areas the Range Manager also states whether the driver is able to reach a certain destination on electric power alone. Applying this information and using further info on the availability and location of special energy filling stations, the driver is then able to choose his personal style of driving as well as the right battery charge and filling strategy.
Offering a unique combination of extremely low fuel consumption, supreme performance and long electric range, the Porsche 918 Spyder concept represents an essential milestone in Porsche's strategy on the way to genuine electric-mobility.
Source: Porsche Cars North America
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Max (SD)
addict
Reged: 08/30/02
Posts: 618
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http://www.automobilemag.com/green/news/1003_2011_porsche_918_spyder_hybrid_concept/index.html
One of the guys at the early 911s registry had this link.
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Porsche Intelligent Performance - The next spark http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5tn2Kerwyc&feature=player_embedded
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Grant
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 4750
Loc: Denver, CO USA
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I really like that car. Very modern design while still looking very much like a Porsche (more Porsche-like than the Carrera GT, imo). I hope that design spawns some affordable sportscars in the lineup.
If this prototype were to come to production in it's current form, I fear that it would cost well in excess of $250k.
-------------------- 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
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Eric (Plug Guy)
Sponsor
Reged: 06/30/02
Posts: 2012
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Looks good, and I'm intrigued.
Actually looks like Lotus and Spyker had a baby.
-------------------- Eric
Chief Plug Guy
BumperPlugs.com
2009 Turbo Cab
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Quote:
I really like that car. Very modern design while still looking very much like a Porsche (more Porsche-like than the Carrera GT, imo). I hope that design spawns some affordable sportscars in the lineup.
If this prototype were to come to production in it's current form, I fear that it would cost well in excess of $250k.
It is an interesting design, better sorted than the GT and with cues from the 917/956, etc.
Who knows what this concept will lead to? It could yield a GT replacement in the $500k region or/and a future roadster at a much lower price point.
In any case, I agree with Spider, hybridization will yield extra complexity that has no place in a leisure sports car. But these are the days we live and car companies feel that they must appease the cuckoos.
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SpeedGeek
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/08/02
Posts: 2421
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
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Quote:
I guess you are not concerned about the extra mass.
I am concerned about the extra mass. That's why I think it will still be some years before they get it right. But improvements in batteries or possibly hydrogen fuel cells will progress rapidly now that big money is involved.
Quote:
Never mind hybrids (using batteries) are greater pollutants, in their total life cycle, than an efficient gas powered car.
Quote:
Don't count on any level of performance in future US cars if the current pack of freaks remains in control. The greens hate your cars and want you to be driving some little POS... or taking the bus.
Quote:
I agree with Spider, hybridization will yield extra complexity that has no place in a leisure sports car. But these are the days we live and car companies feel that they must appease the cuckoos.
Politics aside (I've lost interest) I fail to see the advantage to our future of continuing blindly to burn fossil fuels, particularly the oil we so desperately need from our enemies. I like the idea of thinking beyond the dinosaurs.
Does anyone on this board honestly believe human civilizations some thousands of years in the future will still be using oil and coal for energy? I don't. It's time to move on. If we continue to think like dinosaurs, and burn dinosaurs, we'll become dinosaurs.
We're not yet close to replacing fossil fuel, as our main energy source, with viable alternatives. But we've got to start somewhere. The greenies may be full of sh*t, but I'm hoping they have unknowingly set a path to a more modern and secure future. And whilst it may be true that the average family car will get slower in the near future, I firmly believe that companies like Porsche, Ferrari and Lotus will find ways to make the sports cars we love even better.
Embrace the future - it's on its way whether you like it or not. And have faith in Democracy - it's a lot more powerful and honest than whoever it is occupying the Oval Office at any given time.
-------------------- A. E. Neuman - 996 GT3 RS
Neuman for President!
You could do worse... and always have!
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Green
old hand
Reged: 11/15/03
Posts: 973
Loc: Houston, TX
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I like this car too. Not to delve into politics, but the biggest failure of successive US administrations has been the lack of a Manhattan Project-like effort to lead us out of the fossil fuel era.
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peterm
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/11/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: new york
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Let me add something to the mix- there have been several reports of electromagnetic fields increasing rates of malignancy- especially here on Long Island. I wonder if i should be concerned about bathing my prostate in all that energy I'm sitting on while I drive around
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Orient Express
Funcarsonline Dude
Reged: 07/02/02
Posts: 4732
Loc: Land of the $250K Tax Bracket
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And it complies with the proposed new CAFE standards too! Long live innovation!
-------------------- Checkout my 996
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Let's correct the record - oil is not a 'fossil fuel' or biofuel from fossils. That is an antiquated and wrong concept. Oil is produced deep in the earth crust at 100-200 miles down, a by-product of CA reactions under high temps and pressures and is continually produced. There's plenty of oil in North America and elsewhere in the world. It's the dark ignorance of the fear mongering left wing cuckoos that propagates the lie.
Ans also... battery production, Li-ion in particular, is one of the more energy consuming and polluting processes in the auto industry.
Whoever knows me well, knows I am all for technology development, but I am not for technology for technology sake.
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Grant
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 4750
Loc: Denver, CO USA
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Quote:
Let me add something to the mix- there have been several reports of electromagnetic fields increasing rates of malignancy- especially here on Long Island. I wonder if i should be concerned about bathing my prostate in all that energy I'm sitting on while I drive around
I think your prostate will be ok, as the motors are DC, not AC. I think it's the AC that creates the dangerous high EM fields.
-------------------- 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Quote:
Quote:
Let me add something to the mix- there have been several reports of electromagnetic fields increasing rates of malignancy- especially here on Long Island. I wonder if i should be concerned about bathing my prostate in all that energy I'm sitting on while I drive around
I think your prostate will be ok, as the motors are DC, not AC. I think it's the AC that creates the dangerous high EM fields.
Just a correction - DC motors emit exactly the same EM fields as AC motors. Their DC output is a consequence of the way current is collected in the motor's collector.
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Grant
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 4750
Loc: Denver, CO USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Let me add something to the mix- there have been several reports of electromagnetic fields increasing rates of malignancy- especially here on Long Island. I wonder if i should be concerned about bathing my prostate in all that energy I'm sitting on while I drive around
I think your prostate will be ok, as the motors are DC, not AC. I think it's the AC that creates the dangerous high EM fields.
Just a correction - DC motors emit exactly the same EM fields as AC motors. Their DC output is a consequence of the way current is collected in the motor's collector.
Isn't the cancer risk higher with higher frequency though?
-------------------- 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Let me add something to the mix- there have been several reports of electromagnetic fields increasing rates of malignancy- especially here on Long Island. I wonder if i should be concerned about bathing my prostate in all that energy I'm sitting on while I drive around
I think your prostate will be ok, as the motors are DC, not AC. I think it's the AC that creates the dangerous high EM fields.
Just a correction - DC motors emit exactly the same EM fields as AC motors. Their DC output is a consequence of the way current is collected in the motor's collector.
Isn't the cancer risk higher with higher frequency though?
High frequency and high intensity EM fields. Low frequency, high intensity fields are bad too. There's a lot of research in the subject that has been kept quiet for political/social reasons. Let's just say that I would never live near a high voltage (100kV or higher) 60Hz power line. Watch the time you talk on cell phones too.
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peterm
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/11/02
Posts: 2482
Loc: new york
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potentially it could be another source of "shrinkage"-
for spiders benefit http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pm3F9piwnTU
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Ed NY
Moderator
Reged: 06/30/02
Posts: 3119
Loc: Westchester, New York
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The idea of Hybrid is obviously transitional, similar to a diesel fuel burning railroad steam engine that was developed in the early 1960's or there about.
Hybrid is a current green marketing tool that will be short lived, IMO. I'm surprised by the amount of PR and development money being spent on it. I guess it helps automakers meet mileage regulations. It is good to see that electrical autobile motors are being further developed as that is were this is all going as soon as someone can develop more efficient batteries. Electrical motors have been in use since the turn of the century for rail transporation and it sould be a easy manufacturing transition once the battery technology catches up to it. I would love to have stock in the company that engineers that solution. Electric motors have many fewer moving parts than combustian engines and will not need transmissions, manual, paddle shifts or otherwise. Those 7-speed Doppelkupplung transmission will be a thing of the past as well.
-------------------- Ed, 2010 6-Spd Turbo Cab
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Joel
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/04/02
Posts: 1896
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Grant,
I agree. I really like the lines. It's unfortunate that this will likely be concept-only or $250k+. If it does wind up this way, then it's impact will be very small, which seems unfortunate.
-------------------- Joel
"Some ideas are so ridiculous that only an intellectual could believe them."
- George Orwell
Edited by Joel (03/03/10 11:51 AM)
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SpeedGeek
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/08/02
Posts: 2421
Loc: Johannesburg, South Africa
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Quote:
Let's correct the record - oil is not a 'fossil fuel' or biofuel from fossils. That is an antiquated and wrong concept. Oil is produced deep in the earth crust at 100-200 miles down, a by-product of CA reactions under high temps and pressures and is continually produced. There's plenty of oil in North America and elsewhere in the world. It's the dark ignorance of the fear mongering left wing cuckoos that propagates the lie.
Sorry for resurrecting this rightfully dead discussion, but I feel it necessary to point out that the biotic vs. abiotic debate of oil production remains unresolved. I don't have enough knowledge of the subject to have a useful opinion, but from what I do know, the science is not definitive one way or the other.
Either way, I don't believe we're about to run short of oil any time soon. There's plenty of the stuff down there no matter where it comes from.
-------------------- A. E. Neuman - 996 GT3 RS
Neuman for President!
You could do worse... and always have!
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Joel
Pooh-Bah
Reged: 07/04/02
Posts: 1896
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I think that a relevant question for Porsche should be: would it be a better sportscar if it was gasoline only?
By the way, anyone else shocked that they're expecting sub-Carrera GT Nurburgring lap times? I know that I am.
-------------------- Joel
"Some ideas are so ridiculous that only an intellectual could believe them."
- George Orwell
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Quote:
... By the way, anyone else shocked that they're expecting sub-Carrera GT Nurburgring lap times? I know that I am.
They better. The $80k GTR does.
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spider
Pro
Reged: 06/29/02
Posts: 12024
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Quote:
I think that a relevant question for Porsche should be: would it be a better sportscar if it was gasoline only?
By the way, anyone else shocked that they're expecting sub-Carrera GT Nurburgring lap times? I know that I am.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Porsche is making an engine that runs on methane. The car requires that 2 cows ride along in the back seat to produce the fuel.
spider
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beetle
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 02/29/04
Posts: 3126
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Quote:
Quote:
I think that a relevant question for Porsche should be: would it be a better sportscar if it was gasoline only?
By the way, anyone else shocked that they're expecting sub-Carrera GT Nurburgring lap times? I know that I am.
Is there any truth to the rumor that Porsche is making an engine that runs on methane. The car requires that 2 cows ride along in the back seat to produce the fuel.
spider
I hear the new trendy hybrid designs are strictly methane powered. The regular models have 2 cow stalls in the rear and the family models have four. The progressives grabbed the first batch. Pelosi's public transportation fleet ordered a bunch for her DC office and her West coast multiple mansions. We all pitch in to pay for the hot air.
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Grant
Carpal \'Tunnel
Reged: 06/27/02
Posts: 4750
Loc: Denver, CO USA
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Quote:
I think that a relevant question for Porsche should be: would it be a better sportscar if it was gasoline only?
By the way, anyone else shocked that they're expecting sub-Carrera GT Nurburgring lap times? I know that I am.
It has more power than the CGT, more torque, fancier 7spd gearbox, and weighs about the same. I think they should make an all gasoline version (with RWD and manual gearbox), a pure electric version, and this hybrid version.
-------------------- 73 Carrera RS 2.7 Carbon Fiber replica (240hp & 1,890 lbs)
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